FOX23 Community

Please don't kill the geese.Isn't there a way with out killing them,trap them in cages and take them out to some lake.How did glens falls do it when they had a problem with the ducks?

Hi Dotty,

Please see WWW.SAVETHEGEESE.WEBHOP.NET , it will answer many of your questions. The mayor and village board has continued to villify the geese as human health hazards and ruining the lake. Both are lies.

In his comments to the Scotia Village Board, DEC Senior Wildlife Pathologist Ward Stone emphatically advised the Mayor and Trustees that “Canada geese don’t carry anything harmful to humans.” Studies conducted by Johns Hopkins University Department of Pathology and the National Wildlife Health Center report the same conclusion. In a Gazette article printed last year, even Park Superintendent Marx admitted “there is no known pathogen that a Canada goose can pass to a human”. 

 

Mayor McLaughlin declared in a Gazette article last November that the source of the bacterial contamination in the lake was the springs above Sunnyside Rd. He acknowledged that the “average output of the springs was not swimmable”. Park Superintendent Marx also disclosed in another piece that bacterial samplings of goose *** were not the cause of the high bacteria counts.  The source of the contamination in the springs is still unknown. In the early 1990’S, Both Collins Lake and Ann Lee Pond were reported by the NYS Department of Environmental Conservation as “local bodies of water distressed by urban runoff.”

 

Who cares about a bunch of geese crapping around a lake?  Better to round them up and feed them to the hungry people.  I for one am tired of going to Memory Gardens, and some of the local golf courses and stepping in all the s*** that never seems to decompose.  It's unsightly and unsanitary. I say good riddance. 

Phil S.

Colonie

Apparently alot of people care about the geese or this controversy wouldn't exist.  Its sad that people like you have never taken the time to enjoy nature and wildlife.  This is a real problem in society today, people get caught up in their busy lives and don't want to be inconvenienced by having to step over some duck poop.  All animals produce *** but we can't eliminate all the species because we don't like to see their poop in public.  I have bird doo on my car windows all the time but I don't kill them for it.  I always wonder about people who don't care about animals and think they are all disposable.  I wonder what kind of childhood these people must have had and the experiences in life that led them to believe that animals are worthless.  Did you ever have a pet and did you abuse it? 

If you ever spent some quality time with animals, you would gain an understanding and appreciation for life.  Kids today are learning that if animals or things get in your way, just kill them off.  This is not a good message to send future generations.  Maybe this is why there is more violence in society today.  If people like you feel that animals should be destroyed because golfers don't to step in duck poo on the course, it sure makes me wonder if they have compassion at all for other living things including people.   I hope you will consider your feelings and possibly take a day off to walk through the woods or sit by a lake and view how wonderful nature can be.  You might be surprised.

 

Get a life.  This is a typical response from some left wing enviro-nut.  I happen to love nature and wildlife and animals, especially dogs, and have never deliberately harmed any animal other than poisoning some moles and trapping some mice in my day. That's what you do with nuisance animals that destroy property and threaten human health.  I am not advocating killing them for sport or just for the hell of it. It's not about inconvenience, it's about maintaining human health.  I am not a hunter and do not own a gun.  I compost, recycle, eat the fish I catch or throw them back and a bunch of other "earth-friendly" stuff.  I spend plenty of "quality time" with my dog, and when my first dog came up with cancer after 16 years and I had it "euthanized" to prevent further suffering I cried.  My second dog has developed cysts several times over the past 11 years and I have spent between $500 and $700 each time to have them surgically removed.  It would have been far cheaper to put the dog down - so don't judge me.  That's the problem with a lot of miserable people on blogs - they shoot their mouth off without knowing any facts.  I happen to believe that when animals degrade a public place where people bring their families then enough is enough.  Unfortunately there is no practical way to remove the foul fowl other than shooting them or gassing them. They're stupid birds and just will come back - that's what birds do.   When the avian flu breaks out, or mad cow disease infests a herd what are you going to do - shoo them away?  As far as my feelings go it's none of your business, and I have far more productive things to do than sit by a lake or traipse through the woods and possibly kill harmless insects or crush innocent plants.  You do your thing and I'll do mine. I did not resort to personal attacks on the bird lovers out there, I'm just stating my opinion. 

Who bestowed upon  you the authority to deem anything mere "nuisance".? Talk about shooting one's mouth off, please practice what you preach. Please find one scientific study or one case of illness or death from the CDC or Health Department that points to Canada geese as a cause of illness in humans. DEC pathologist Ward Stone, Wildlife Scientist, with 36 years of experience, doctorate, masters degrees has publicly stated that "geese carry nothing harmful to humans". But of course you know better. You posted with hostile intent the first time in an attempt to create conflict here. Who cares? Many people do and your question to that effect serves to reveal in you a limited capacity for caring, otherwise the question would not need asking. You know what the feelings are of those who posted here, so what was your point in responding to myself and Dotty, other than to start an argument?

 

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer

I wouldn't classify attempts to save geese from needless slaughter someone who is a left wing enviro-nut but I guess I don't mind that title, actually, I think its a compliment so thank you!   In one sentence you claim to love nature, wildlife and animals but then refer to geese as stupid birds who deserve to die. Which is it?    

I think you are confused about the facts:  There have been no reported injuries or illness associated with these geese so I'm not sure where you are coming up with the theory that these geese must be killed because they are a healthy hazard.  Are people eating the goose droppings?    Volunteers have the solutions and are willing to clean up their messes free of charge but people like you have convinced yourself that its best to just rid them forever and keep killing them off if new birds come.   

Honestly, I feel sorry for closed-minded people.  Those who are so quick to judge and haven't really figured out how to solve problems of their own let alone in society.   When you are faced with a difficult decision, do you just choose the easiest most convenient answer and not consider all the possibilities?  Sometimes doing the right thing requires more energy but in the long run will prove to be correct.   A lot of people in society today have lost their basic moral and ethical values.  Many have become desensitized to the wrong doings that occur every day because they are so used to having what they want, when they want and don't want to be inconveienced in anyway.  Its not a health matter at all and I think you know that too but possibly don't want to admit it. 

If you are writing on this forum you have made your business public so you made it everyone's business.  Its pretty lame to chastise a person because they feel its innappropriate, morally wrong and cruel to kill innocent birds simply because of their poop droppings.    The real issue is that I hit the nail on the head on everything I said and there's really no defense on your part that makes any sense at all.  

I know you are busy, maybe you could re-think your values.  If you are a good person, you will make the time to contibute to your community in a positive way.  Oh I forgot!  Its none of my business, sorry.

 

 

 

 

We will never come to an agreement about this. For every study that says geese *** is hazardous there is another that says it is overblown. 

Canada geese *** can be hazardous to people's health. The elderly, children, and pregnant or breastfeeding women are particularly susceptible to health risks posed by parasites that inhabit Canada geese ***. At even higher risk are those with weak immune systems, such as people with HIV/AIDS, chemotherapy recipients, and recent organ donors and recipients. Similarly, people with gastrointestinal (GI) problems, such as ulcers and irritable bowel disease, are also at increased risk, since they, too, cannot easily combat parasites from Canada geese ***.

Geese *** usually contain the parasites cryptosporidium, giardia, coliform, and campylobacter. Cryptosporidium poses the most serious health hazard, since it causes cryptosporidiosis, an illness with the following symptoms:

• watery diarrhea
• dehydration
• weight loss
• stomach cramps or pain
• fever
• nausea
• vomiting

Cryptosporidium was responsible for a 1993 outbreak of disease in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, when the city's water supply became contaminated. One hundred people died and 400,000 became ill during this epidemic. The risk for a city or town's water supply becoming infected with cryptosporidium lingers as some municipalities do not check their water for this parasite at all. Wisely, New York City has been testing its water supply regularly for this parasite since 1992 as part of its water safety monitoring program.

Different governments and municipalities have tackled this issue in different ways, some have exterminated the geese, others have advocated and utilized different methods. The problem is not going to go away, the geese will come back and continue to ruin the area.  If you want to spend your time and your money feel free, but for my time and money extermination is the answer.  Why is it ok to exterminate caterpillars? All they do is eat the leaves off of trees?  Is a goose "cuter" than a little fuzzy caterpillar?  What about trapping squirrels that damage property, or shooting predatory animals?  Where do you draw the line?   You're the one who is closed minded, not me.  If you have a less costly and more effective alternative, then let's hear it.  Don't feel sorry for me, I'm quite comfortable with my position.  I never said they "deserve to die" that what you inferred in your closed minded way. 

How interesting that you cut an pasted from the Go Ask Alice website, I must note that it is neither refereed or peer reviewed information. How interesting that Dr. Ward Stone, has dissected over two hundred Canada Geese and has never found any human pathogen. But, what the hell should he know, he is only a wildlife scientist with 36 years of experience. You and Alice both know more.

Of the 8 strains of cryptosporidium, only one is pathogenic to humans. All vertebrates are potential hosts to the parasite. The strain particular to geese is not a human pathogen. The crypto outbreak in Milwaukee actually was of the bovine genotype. Milwaukee houses one of the biggest slaughterhouses in the area and sewage runoff into the water supply is the suspected route of tranmission. Sadly, because mankind had irresponsibly contaminated many watersheds with sewage, he has now caused geese and OTHER wildlife to become infected with parasites they normally would not come in contact with. Animals may now become vectors of human pathogens. But let's not stop polluting our watersheds, we can just kill off anything that becomes corrupted because of human selfishness and irresponsibility. Anything that looks ugly or bothers us we can kill too. Killing after all requires minimal effort and allows us not to have to make changes in our comfortable habits.

I guess when Calaviesno states that birds are stupid and should be gassed or shot at Collins Park doesn't mean he feels they deserve to die.  You don't even realize that your statements contradict one another.  As far as money goes, I'm not spending any money on relocating birds.  People like me and others who volunteer are willing to spend the time and that is all it takes...time.  As far as other animals like squirrels, I wouldn't trap or kill a squirrel either, I wouldn't need to.  That is the problem with people like you, the first thing you think of is to kill...pretty scary.   Unfortunately, you will probably never consider the fact that you haven't educated yourself enough on this issue and you are not capable of appreciating the value of wildlife and their role in the ecosystem.  

Being closed minded prevents you from thinking outside the box and people who live in vacuums aren't able to extract fact from fiction and lack the ability to draw reasonable conclusions.  I do feel sorry for you and you can say you are comfortable with your "logic" but I can tell you are confused.

Do some research and after you find substantiated cases of mass illness associated with geese, let me know.   I won't be hearing from you again.

 

I think the birds are smarter than a lot of the smug elitist bloggers out there who need to resort to personal attacks to divert attention from the fact that preventing even one child, or elderly tax paying citizen getting even temporarily or mildly sick is more important than the lives of every single one of the defecating nuisance creatures.  They're not pets, or anyone's personal property. They're not endangered.  They're nothing more than rats, or rodents.  The fact that reviewing articles on line and posting them to try and help the ignorant people out there form an opinion is no crime - I didn't say I wrote it.  Kendra is the most closed minded of the bunch - at least I admit to being able to consider other alternatives, she thinks of herself as somehow more educated or superior merely because of her close minded view, and the fact that she feels sorry for me. Anyone who wouldn't eradicate pests and rodents is too way out there for me.  So don't bother, I don't need or want your feigned sympathy.  I also don't need any authority to proclaim anything a nuisance, it's an opinion.  I think a lot of good progress is inhibited by supposedly well intentioned but misguided people who are nuisances, but I'm not advocating shooting them.  I've obviously struck a chord here, and that's when people get the most bothered, when it disturbs their "truth."  I don't need mass sickness to stand behind, even one person is too many.  If you enjoy communing with *** then great, that pretty much sums it up for me.  Case closed.  And how about Dotty, who cuts and pastes quotes from quote services in an attempt to sound smarter than apparently she is?  Why not attack her.  How about this quote from Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain to you cut and pasters), "Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, rather than open it and remove all doubt." You people have removed any doubt I may have had.  Are you all as pro-life for babies as you are pro-life for geese?  Where's your outrage there?   

You are the biggest fool of all. I fell out laughing and your posts will provide entertainment for a long time to come. These birds were almost extinct, (partly because of arrogant people like you who believe they have the right to dismiss other life forms as nuisances) that’s why they are protected by the Migratory Bird Treaty Act and as far as the federal government is concernced, still endangered. Go educate yourself and come back here and then engage in learned discourse. Your puerile rhetoric is without merit and it is interesting that you only have “opinions” and no facts. And you know what they say: opinions are like assholes, everybody’s got one.

You are the fool, and you're talking out of your a**hole.  By the way it is you who resorted to  childish vulgarity first because that is the tactic for losers like you - resort to personal attacks when you can't compete in the arena of intelligent idea.  These birds (Branta Canadensis) http://www.gpnc.org/canada.htm are not on the endangered list which is maintained by the US Fish & Wildlife Service.  you can search the TESS database (Threatened and Endangered Species System) here. http://ecos.fws.gov/tess_public/StartTESS.do

So you my fine feathered friend need to read up on this yourself, then clean out your blow hole and apologize to the rest of the people on this forum. 

 

Calaviesno, why does it bother you so much that people who care about wildlife and the environment are volunteering their time and energy to something that could actually turn out to be a win-win situation?  Are you that that violent of a person who only considers death as the solution to a problem?  I was raised to treat people, things and animals with respect and I wish others were brought up with the same values.  People who think that animals are useless scare me because it shows they have no compassion for life.  A few months ago I viewed a television program on tortured animals and birds for all kinds of reasons:  food, fur, fois gras, eggs, etc. broadcasted by PETA.  This was the first time I ever viewed something like this.  It was the most horrific program I ever saw but I'm glad I watched it because it shows how cruel and desensitized humans actually are in order to torture and mutilate and kill innocent animals.  Go to their website at:  www.peta.com and view some of the videos.  Watch animals being skinned alive so that people can walk around with fur coats or watch geese being force fed until their livers explode.  Its shocking and disgusting but may change your mind on what right we have to kill these geese when there are other alternatives.   These are extreme examples of abuse but perhaps if you see what goes on in the world, you will have a better appreciation for living things and desire to want to change the attitude of people who feel they are superior.  Other abuses of geese are outlined below (extracted from the peta website).  

    

Force-Feeding

Birds raised for foie gras spend the first four weeks of their lives eating and growing, sometimes in semi-darkness. For the next four weeks, they are confined to cages and fed a high-protein, high-starch diet that is designed to promote rapid growth. Force-feedings begin when the birds are between 8 and 10 weeks old. For 12 to 21 days, ducks and geese are subjected to “gavage”—every day, up to 4 pounds of grain and fat is forced down the birds’ throats by means of an auger in a feeding tube.(8,9) The Washington Post reported that the tube “is pushed 5 inches down their throats and more food than they want is gunned into their stomachs. If the mushy corn sticks … a stick is sometimes used to force it down.”(10) The birds’ livers, which become engorged from a carbohydrate-rich diet, can grow to more than 10 times their normal size (a condition called “hepatic steatosis”).(11) The mortality rate of birds raised for foie gras has been found to be as much as 20 times higher than that of birds raised normally, and carcasses show wing fractures and severe tissue damage to the throat muscles.(12)

Investigations Reveal Further Cruelty

A PETA investigation of a foie gras production facility at Commonwealth Enterprises in New York revealed that workers were expected to force-feed 500 birds three times a day. A worker told one of PETA’s investigators that he could feel tumor-like lumps, caused by force-feeding, in some ducks’ throats. One duck had a maggot-covered neck wound that was so severe that water spilled out of it when he drank. Workers routinely carried ducks by their necks, causing them to choke and defecate in distress.

One veterinarian who accompanied the police on their raid of Commonwealth noted, “Many of the ducks … were lame or unable to walk without using their wings for support. Some ducks moved by pushing their bodies along the floor. Healthy ducks spend much of their time on their feet, constantly investigating their environment.” This same veterinarian said, “All of the birds in the force-feeding area had dirty, ragged, incomplete plumage, yet none were attempting to preen. Only severely stressed or ill ducks allow their plumage to deteriorate to [such a] degree. … Normal ducks keep their feathers in near-perfect condition.”(13)

A New York state wildlife pathologist who examined ducks from Commonwealth expressed horror at the birds’ “greatly enlarged livers, the product of overfeeding by force (livers are easily torn by even minor trauma)” and at one duck’s “laceration of the liver with hemorrhage into the body cavity.” He went on to say, “This type of treatment and farming of waterfowl is outside the acceptable norms of agriculture and sane treatment of animals.”(14) And he later told PETA, “If this kind of thing was happening to dogs, it would be stopped immediately.”(15)

A New York Times reporter who visited Sonoma Foie Gras found that young ducks had their beaks clipped and that birds “were so fat [that] they moved little and panted.” The reporter also noted that at the age of 12 to 15 weeks, birds were confined to dark sheds that had “standing water … deep enough to suggest a drainage problem.”(16) Please visit www.gourmetcruelty.com or www.aprl.org to view footage and to learn more about this investigation.